[LEVIATHAN] ANNOUNCING LEVIATHAN COMMANDER
Dear players of Commander,
I’m Pierre-Jean. For the ones who doesn’t know me, I organize, with Mimicherie whom you know doubtless better, the Demonic Tournament Commander, the biggest Commander event around the World. The reason why I organize this tournament since few years is beacause I really love this format, and I love too the player’s community. So I have a few things to say.
1/ my point of view about Commander
2/ Leviathan Commander
3/ What about the next DTC
1/ As you know, Dual Commander is now played with 20HP instead of 30. It divide the Community between players who are pleased about this decision or just follow it, and players who prefer stay with 30HP because they are used to play in this way for years. Firstly, I want to clarify a point which will avoid misanderstanding for the rest of my announcement. I’m not either for or against each of these formats. I think that each of them have reasons to exist, and I think each side is stupid when it fight against the other format. Let’s your neighbor plays what he want. So what I call for is the coexistence of the 2 formats.
I also think that players do make a format to live. Dualcommander’s players officially use the 20HP rule. Does it mean that other players have to play 30HP “illegally”, as a secret guild who make dark rituals? I don’t think so. They Made a choice. The choice of playing what they like. But to make a choice, its necessary to have the choice.
2/ To allow the players to make this choice, to get out of “clandestinity” and then to play 30HP without shame, a group of Italians are building a new Commitee which manage a new format : the Leviathan Commander. To be quick, It’s exactly the DualCommander you have known, with 30HP, with a quite similar banlist. I’m personnaly engaged with them to help them with the launching of this “new” format. My work will be to survey that decisions are taken for the greater good. One more time for illiterate people : I’m not working against the French Comitee or against the 20HP format. Just, I’m working for what I think to be the greater good, in this case, having a choice.
So if you are a 30HP player, I’m proud to inform you that you are now playing on Leviathan Commander. I suggest you to visit this page for more informations. Obviously, you can visit it just for curiosity, even if you prefer 20HP.
https://www.facebook.com/LeviathanCommander/
3/ So, what about the upcoming DTC ? Surprise everybody : the DTC will take place on 29th, 30th of April and 1st of May. Both formats will be played.Sundays and First of May are often off days in major countries. There will be a Main Event in Leviathan Commander and a Side Event in Dual Commander, and the inverse the other day. On Saturday, we will propose you Trials in both formats for the Main events of the week-end and for Side events too.
We still encourage shops and associations to organize trials, in the format of their choice. For us, organizing a such an event while letting people free to choose is quite a challenge, also quite a risk, but we are ready to take up challenges to ensure stability of our community.
26 Responses so far
DeckardCain
November 8th, 2016
Hello Pierre-Jean!
Congratulations, you have ruined Duel Commander! Thanks for reaching out to community, acknowledging the concerns about the direction of the format (we really appreciate it), then doubling down and making even more drastic changes. We understand that you’re seeking to improve the format but you’re clearly making decisions that will divide you community.
See you all at https://canadianhighlander.wordpress.com/
MoJo CoManDo
November 8th, 2016
I also disagree with creating a “Leviathan” format (as I commented in the other post)… that is exactly the same as DuelCommander was already. Either make a NEW format (that’s not just “new” in name only), or work with the current one. DuelCommander: Leviathan could be cool… if there were new rules that made it different.
Still, this is pretty much DuelCommander [ITALIAN] vs. DuelCommander [FRENCH]
Fracturing an already small, niche player base is NOT a good idea…
EpicHippo
November 8th, 2016
As someone who is regretfully stopping Duel Commander, I think this is a bad idea. As much as I wish we had remained with the 30 life format in the original Duel Commander, creating two formats is not the answer. Fracturing a player base and creating confusion, separate banlists, separate rules, this is not something that will be healthy for either format.
Either stick to your guns with the 20 life format or revert it back to the 30 life format, please don’t try to do both.
EDHFfreak
November 9th, 2016
@DeckardCain
Can you explain why you hate on Leviathan org that wants to keep the format that has been played for YEARS and not blame the French “elites” that make format just for their own entertainment whitout listening to the majority?
Moreover, the new rules/bans inclinate way more to Highlander than Duel Commander.
Meh
November 9th, 2016
This is a terrible idea. Why alienate your player base even more? It’s not like this is the most popular format ever, so know you want to split people? I’m not terribly for or against any of the two rulesets, but I think the format should move in just one direction. Otherwise Duel Commander will die.
Brad
November 9th, 2016
Hi Pierre-Jean,
As you are a tournament organizer I understand that you need to maximize tournament profit through maximizing tournament attendance, and due to this you need to support all possible commander formats in your tournaments, but please have the decency not to present your support for multiple duel commander formats as something you are doing to “ensure stability of our community”. If you wanted a stable dual commander community you would oppose this change.
Raizen
November 9th, 2016
Just something about 20HP, last reports…
Zurgo, Zurgo, Geist, Geist, random commander, random commander, Titania..
Great AWESOME META!…
Please, understand that 20HP is not making aggro a buildable archetype, it is making Burn absurdly strong (8 cards, a consistent 1-drop letting you curve your deck to 2-drops), and making the meta be totally shifted into decks that are good against burn (Blue-based midrange – Geist), extremely low-clock commanders (Titania), and Zurgo. It is easy to see that happening, just check out the 20hp tournaments.
Caska
November 9th, 2016
@Raizen: if only someone had told them it would look like that 2 months ago!
OH WAIT.
I did.
Not surprised in the slightest that the entire meta revolves around Burn being tier 1.
Igor Medeiros
November 9th, 2016
Hello Pierre-Jean!
Congratulations, you have ruined Duel Commander! Thanks for reaching out to community, acknowledging the concerns about the direction of the format (we really appreciate it), then doubling down and making even more drastic changes. We understand that you’re seeking to improve the format but you’re clearly making decisions that will divide you community.
DeckardCain
November 10th, 2016
@EDHFfreak
I was a huge Duel Commander fan. My LGS used to play Duel Commander as its main FNM format, but now everyone has lost interest and the store is struggling to host FNM. For whatever reason, Duel Commander just clicked with our play group. We had plenty of people that wanted to play powerful cards (Grisselbrand, Iona, Stasis, Armageddon, mana rocks, etc) but didn’t want to invest in duel lands for legacy. Duel Commander was the perfect compromise. Over time we invested more and more into our decks and the meta really balanced itself, it was quite impressive.
After 2 years of FNM my playgroup went to a GP and we all entered the Duel Commander side events. We did great, won some prizes, and got exposed to new strategies that fueled our desire to tweak our decks. All in all this was probably one of the most enjoyable times I’ve played Magic. I’ve never cared so much about improving my deck or learning the high level strategy.
At the time I was playing was mono black Skithiryx (which is more control than aggro). By reducing the life total from 30 to 20 my commander now loses it edge while racing other fast decks like Rafiq or Geist. I can’t run Necropotence / Yawgmoth’s Bargin without life gain, and you crippled Toxic Deluge which I often relied on for killing a Kalia, Kytheon, Narset, tokens, etc. Play testing my deck with the new rules isn’t going well. If I wanted to continue playing the format I would have to disassemble the deck and go back to the drawing board. Hundreds of hours spent making this deck truly my own lost. I am NOT going to bother again. Before I played Skithiryx I had a Tasigur deck and we know that that turned out.. I have lost 2 decks in 2 years playing this format and it cost me a lot of money. FAR more than standard. This is not how the format should be.
I am defiantly venting but this is the place for it. Many other fans of Duel Commander have invested in their decks and experienced bans too. They’re not giving the community any input when new changes are discussed either. If you read other comments there is clearly a group who likes the change and very much dislike for the same reasons I expressed.
EDHFfreak
November 10th, 2016
@Deckard Cain
I agree.
So again, why you hate on Leviathan when it’s exactly the same Duel Commander as it was before Marath ban (30hp, Ooze unbanned etc.), this is THE group that does not like changes so you can take your Skythirix and have fun again.
I suggest you to checkout the facebook page to see whats before hate. The hate should go towards French commitee that made an abomination out of this.
Licciolo
November 10th, 2016
Before anybody else complains about this, please recognize the difference between cause and effect.
Leviathan is the natural consequence of the community split, not its cause.
Dont’ worry about the community split being permanent, though. It’s unlikely that both formats will survive and thrive, because they are too similar and refer to the exact same audience so in the end one will slowly start to steal players from the other, until it will reach critical mass and organizing tournaments of the other won’t be worthwile anymore, making it disappear.
ONE COMMANDER
November 11th, 2016
This is getting totally ridiculous. You should join forces and create one…
with 25 HP.
Solve the problems of both formats by creating one in the middle ground!
DeckardCain
November 11th, 2016
@EDHFfreak
You make a very good point. There is a part of me that is excited for Leviathan and I feel hopeful the more I look into it. What still bothers me is that this is yet another format that will have to compete for side event scheduling at GPs which is typically the highest level of competition.
OB1
November 15th, 2016
Hi guys !
30 HP = 100 cards singleton
20 HP = 60 cards singleton
RedManaFührer
November 16th, 2016
I think one of the biggest mistakes was to remove the commander damage. It is irrelevant if the starting life is 20. Commander damage is useful and it’s the trademark of the great brand of Commander/EDH
marcio silva santos souza
November 29th, 2016
zurgo, geist, surgo, geist, titania, zurgo – unknow
Raizen
December 7th, 2016
50% of the meta is made of Vial/Something, Geist, Titania and Zurgo, here are the last month’s data:
Titania, Protector of Argoth 12 %
Zurgo Bellstriker 10 %
Partner Aggro 6 %
Geist of Saint Traft 12 %
Partner Control 11 %
Almost all Partners are Vial,
So my question is, what are you comittee going to do about this total unbalance? Ban all 4 of them?
Wolf
December 9th, 2016
Guys I love the time and effort that you have put on this format and giving us a solid format for 1v1 still dont understand how TOs use multyplayer commander to run 1v1 events but this just seams like you are bending to the hate of some lil bitches who cant stand change, whats next Titan commander for the people who want to play with commander damage or hybrid commander for the people who want to use both banlist of commander thee in the future stand on your desitions
Bendoq
December 10th, 2016
My two cents after playing this format extensively on Cockatrice. The following changes should be made:
Ban:
Vial Smasher (as Commander)
Too conducive to delve/pitch-based midrange decks that are about 60-70% identical. The effect is meant for multiplayer where it’s random who gets hit and people are on 40 life, it obviously becomes degenerate in a 20-life 1v1 environment. You can literally kill people in 2 spells, even if you counter them. Fireblast, Gurmag Angler, Tasigur, Murderous Cut, Pyrokinesis etc. are just way too insane value with this. Example: had a game with t3 Vial Smasher, their turn Force of Will their play (-5 life), t4 play Mystical Teachings (-4 life), attack (-2 life), on their turn Fireblast (-10 life). Dead, while countering their removal. This is not okay, and warps the meta.
Umezawa’s Jitte
This is also banned in 20-life Highlander, and for a reason. It makes any creature-based matchup extremely unpleasant, as it often ends in who gets Jitte first/who can kill Jitte first. It attacks on so many angles, giving control, defense, offense, and clock, almost regardless of what it’s on. What’s worse, it severely threatens creature-based value strategies, as it’s nearly impossible to stick utility guys against it, forcing people to run extra artifact removal just for 1 potential metagame card.
Price of Progress
This should never have been printed, it’s ridiculous in any legacy format where manabases are built on nonbasics. Yes it’s okay to punish nonbasics with stuff like Blood Moon etc. because that just hinders the opponent and doesn’t end the game on the spot – Price, on the other hand, will simply be gg immediately 90% of the time it’s cast. For 2 mana. At instant speed. Burn/aggressive red is already a tier 1 deck, it doesn’t need a 1-card instant auto-win against multicolor decks on top of everything they already have. This card is only harmful to the environment, and adds virtually no positive dimensions.
Watchlist:
Stoneforge Mystic
This card has always been ridiculously efficient in virtually every format that allowed it, but it’s unclear if it’s too good in Commander, or merely very good. Certainly much of why it’s not that ubiquitous has to do with Vial Smasher decks not playing white – without Vial Smasher in the format, I’m 90% certain that every aggro deck except Mono-Red/Green will be white-based in part because of this card. Removing it may lead to more diverse metagame choices. Then again, it may also be okay to leave in, depending on meta developments. Very difficult to tell, but the card is certainly one to watch out for.
Unban:
Gifts Ungiven
Given the faster format, hard control/combo strategies are naturally under more pressure, and fairly underrepresented. Gifts would not magically make them superior, nor would it make for a dangerous metagame shift. It would simply expand choice a bit, and is in general not a card that should remain banned in the new format. It just isn’t that dangerous anymore.
Charles Lunquist
December 12th, 2016
Horrible idea.
The problem with French commander is it being run by a small group of people who just aren’t capable of running it and deciding such big parts of it. Wizards has a large group of qualified individuals running things while French commander is just people without the education, skills or experience to take on such a task.
Those running French commander are just not qualified and it shows.
Kumano
December 12th, 2016
@Bendoq I think it’s pretty clean that Smasher needs to be banned, that card is just not designed to be played in a 20hp format. I’d say there wasn’t such an oppressive commander since Edric…
Samba
December 20th, 2016
I’m happy that Leviathan is somewhat recognized by an “official announcement” on this website.
I do agree that this is a split of the community, and that it is a shame. But this is the logical consequence of the comittee inconsistencies.
Long life to the Leviathan (aka “Real Duel Commander”) and not-so-long life to the Duel Commander (aka “Singleton Legacy”). Whatever, happy games to everyone!
lyo
March 27th, 2017
I never stop playing duel commander with 30 life.
The 20 life change was a very bad idea and what happens with smasher decks now proves it.
Javier Prato
September 9th, 2017
Just making a statement, commander and duel commander are two different formats, just stop callind the second “commander” without “duel”.
The original spirit of the format wich is intended as a multiplayer format was tainted, crippled with “duel commander” and it would be a nice thing if people keeps both stuff clearly sepparated
Cutshall
September 24th, 2019
Just play life gain y’all.
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